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Color Difference Keyer

Post requests for new features to this forum group. Any suggestion to expand the possibilities of Ventuz are welcome.

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serourian
Posts: 54
Joined: 30 Jun 2015, 12:06
Location: Lebanon
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Color Difference Keyer

Post by serourian » 25 Jun 2019, 22:56

Hi, I've been waiting for a long time to see more will be added to this effect,
what I am asking are three new features to this effect that are crucial:
1- Alpha Choker
2- Edge feather
3- Anti alias for the edge.

I tried to achieve both of these features manually, but it doesn't as it should . .

regards.
Thx in advance

serourian
Posts: 54
Joined: 30 Jun 2015, 12:06
Location: Lebanon
Contact:

Re: Color Difference Keyer

Post by serourian » 20 Dec 2020, 10:36

Hi All, to the Ventuz, please it is really urgent, please nobody is listening, you say in discord post in Forum, and I already posted this thread more than a year ago, but no one is listening, even didn't get any reply !!! please we really need edge feathering and alpha choker ( removing pixels from the edges ) for the Color Difference Keyer. We are having problems with our customers. People with worthless softwares can do better keying than us. Please Please Please. THIS IS REALLY URGENT . AND PLEASE REPLY, AND FIND A SOLUTION FOR US. Now that Ventuz is also getting into consideration of doing Virtual Studios ... what keyer are we going to use ? Most of our works are trackless, I don't want to use other equipment for keying .

regards.

Maybe you can add an HSLS shader that does alpha choking and feather .... don't know ... but we really need a solution as fast as you can please.

serourian
Posts: 54
Joined: 30 Jun 2015, 12:06
Location: Lebanon
Contact:

Re: Color Difference Keyer

Post by serourian » 20 Dec 2020, 10:40

Here are some demonstration :

Image

Image


other software with the same image:

Image
To Ventuz3.jpg
Attachments
To Ventuz 002.jpg
To Ventuz.jpg

serourian
Posts: 54
Joined: 30 Jun 2015, 12:06
Location: Lebanon
Contact:

Re: Color Difference Keyer

Post by serourian » 20 Dec 2020, 10:41

Anybody who wants this feature please upvote by writing something please.

User avatar
Dennis
Posts: 384
Joined: 08 Jun 2015, 11:29

Re: Color Difference Keyer

Post by Dennis » 22 Dec 2020, 13:53

Hi as discussed in Discord already, and picked up by several people.

Most professional solutions are using the Ultimatte keyer and their mixing consoles. Thats how it is done in professional environments.
Also for example Trackmen offers an own Keyer as well.

Most of the Keyers are working as CHROMA Keyers which is generally different to a Color difference Keyer. You can not really simply compare a Hardware Keyer to a keyer which is implemented into a software solution.

Personally i had already great success using the built in color difference keyer in Ventuz. This involves A LOT of work to tune. I mentioned already that you would tweak several parameters and also jump back and change parameters which you already tweaked. An also very important key to success for the color difference keyer is the environment. This all may change from case to case.

I pointed out that we will have a blur for the key in the near future, this is on the roadmap. But you can be sure that this will not fix all problems in the end - you will still need to take a while and work on the parameters. - there is no one click solution.

Even if you take the Ultimatte - do you expect miracles then? you would still need to get a training for the ultimatte and tweak parameters there as well - since the ultimatte is a very good product and their focus is on keying only you will have a fantastic result if you manage to master the ultimatte. This involves traingin, experience and a good setup.

Alpha choking can be managed by tweaking the gamma values for example... this is the pre and post gamma - whenever you tweak parameters, keep an eye on the KEy Outpu (which you can select in the color difference keyer properties)

Regards
Dee

User avatar
lerou
Posts: 345
Joined: 06 Sep 2013, 07:14
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Re: Color Difference Keyer

Post by lerou » 22 Dec 2020, 13:59

I don't know much about keyers, but there is an alternative keyer for Ventuz 6 on the Store, even a free demo to test it. Might be worth checking out.

u-double-u
Posts: 172
Joined: 03 Dec 2014, 15:46

Re: Color Difference Keyer Camerasettings

Post by u-double-u » 22 Dec 2020, 14:40

Hi,
one or two things looking at your jpgs.
It looks like the footage has been interlaced AND the camera(s) had an additional „sharpening“ active, which might be responsible for the dark edges around your actors.
Youn might consider that and try to have a most uniform greenscreen as backdrop. Make sure to literlly „iron out“ all kinds of wrinkles and folds, edges, etc...

serourian
Posts: 54
Joined: 30 Jun 2015, 12:06
Location: Lebanon
Contact:

Re: Color Difference Keyer

Post by serourian » 23 Dec 2020, 08:28

Hi everybody, thx in advance. I already know all of the mentioned solutions, and I'm already doing it. The only thing I'm asking is very very very simple, it may take with Ventuz maybe 1 or 2 days just to add the two things I mentioned. What I'm doing sometimes is as follows: I key the video, the video is as render target, then take it to another layer, inverse the alpha, add an edge and add a small bit of blurring, then a final layer, where I take the keyed layer as the base color and it's alpha inverse of the inversed alpha layer...... But when I have big moves, the inverse alpha is shifting (delaying a fraction of a second, leaving shadow like arteffect....because there are delays between layers, since the main key layer has no post effect and the other one has, Specially if I'm using 3 or 4 cameras.
After all, all I'm asking is helping me just by adding an edge smoothener and an alpha choker to the post effects. Is it that hard to add only those ????????

There are lots of examples of codes how to make alpha choking and edge smooting by HLSL, but I don't know how to make them work in Ventuz.

Please I beg you Ventuz, just add an edge smoother and an alpha chocker in the color difference filter. This is all what I am asking for.

I just can't take it to see that a cheap junk program <$6000 has a keyer that can even key a bottle infront of a green screen . . . it's just not fair. Ventuz is the best software that suites me. But this problem is really making clients get away from doing virtual studio, just because I can't have soft edges !!!! We already lost a very big project just because of such a filter.....

Please just take a look in discord the video I uploaded . . . the key is amazing, even you have the real shadows of the person on the ground ! It's insane. . .


As for the shots, we are already lowering the details of the camera with the CCU.

regards,
LOVE YOU VENTUZ

serourian
Posts: 54
Joined: 30 Jun 2015, 12:06
Location: Lebanon
Contact:

Re: Color Difference Keyer

Post by serourian » 23 Dec 2020, 09:08

The demo I posted in discord (tips & tricks) is just to show that it is possible to have a software keyer almost like ultimate and maybe better !

And anyway, when Ventuz solves all the problems of the integration with Unreal, I will definitely use the keyer in Unreal because the Presenter has to reflect and have shadows on the unreal set.

User avatar
Dennis
Posts: 384
Joined: 08 Jun 2015, 11:29

Re: Color Difference Keyer

Post by Dennis » 23 Dec 2020, 16:30

After all, all I'm asking is helping me just by adding an edge smoothener and an alpha choker to the post effects. Is it that hard to add only those ????????

There are lots of examples of codes how to make alpha choking and edge smooting by HLSL, but I don't know how to make them work in Ventuz.

Please I beg you Ventuz, just add an edge smoother and an alpha chocker in the color difference filter. This is all what I am asking for.
last time and i repeat myself:

Edge Blur for Key - on the roadmap!
Alpha Choke - or whatever you call it - can be solved by tweaking the pre/gamma values!

And NO! It is not just 1-2 Days in development. There is much more to consider in a development process. This has to be tested, verified, validated and so on.. before it can go live.

I will not go further more into detail what kind of procedures are involved before handing out a release or feature!

We heard you, i answered "it is on the roadmap" several times, it will not finally satisfy you (quality wise, since it will NOT REPLACE A HARDWARE KEYER LIKE ULTIMATTE), it takes time to implement, it will be done.

So please stop spamming the forums and discord. A LOT of people answered and tried to help you out.

all the best and happy holidays
Dee

PS: if there are a lot of examples and stuff out there... why do not hire a professional to implement it on your own?... like a hlsl or somethin?........

:ugeek:

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